Whitby Shores Community Forums

Elizabeth Roy Wrote:

Residents of Whitby Shores;

This Thursday at 7pm at the Marina there is an introduction of the plans for the ECOPLACE development across from your subdivision.

You have received notices about the official Planning and Development meeting on the 21st; Thursday's meeting is more informal and gives full opportunity for residents to make comment about their concerns.

This meeting has been called by the builder; he has contacted myself and Shirley Scott to connect with the community to get input from area residents; this I hope will be the start for more dialogue with the community about development in your area.

Should you require any further info please email me at roye@whitby.ca.

Thanks
Liz

Thank you Liz - I'll be there.

zoe Wrote:

Too bad we can't make it ... maybe someone could summarize it for the rest of us who can't be there in person.

I attended the meeting last night. Here is what I learned:

1) The purpose of the meeting was to give us "heads up" from the developer's team what is coming our way. As part of the application process, they didn't have to do this but I'm glad they did. Some people were upset that local representatives were not around to answer questions (although two councilors attended) but I think they missed a point. The first official meeting is on April 21 and that is the opportunity to questions our dear politicians regarding their intentions - this was just a sales pitch from the developer.

2) The area already fenced in is not part of the development. We are getting a Petro Canada gas station there.

3) The developer is applying for two things:

- Changing the designation of the land from industrial to mixed (currently everything is industrial)
- Increasing the max allowable height from 8 to 20 stories

4) The current plan focuses only on the Phase 1 of the project which will consist of three buildings: one 20 stories (the one for which the need the zoning change) and 2 lower ones (3-4 stories).

5) If things go according to their plan (no delays, no significant opposition etc.) they are hoping to put the shovel to the ground within a year. The construction itself will take approx 18-24 months.

6) Many people had valid concerns regarding the supporting infrastructure (sewage, electricity, traffic studies etc.). As per the application process, these will be covered (and studied by the city) during the application for the site permit. This happens after the rezoning is approved but before anything is built. The developer apparently hired various consulting companies to cover those concerns but no specific results were presented (they will be submitted and I assume available for view during the site permit application).

7) Because of the proximity to a conservation area (lovingly described by some residents as a "swamp") some people asked pointed questions regarding the environmental impact. The answer was (and we have to take them for their word) that they are willing to work with environment organizations, community groups etc. All the building will have the LEED designation (which impacts how the buildings are built and operated) and that the lighting issues would also be adjusted accordingly not to impact bird migration.

8) Once the Phase 1 is completed, it will provide 1200 jobs. The expectation is one major tenant (apparently they are already negotiating with someone but couldn't tell us) and smaller offices (maybe a medical centre, shops on the ground level etc.)

9) Now, if the Phase 1 is completed and things are going well, they would move in to put up the rest. The proposed development is huge - 30-40 condominium towers (most of them 20 stories or taller), half a dozen office towers etc. The entire project would not be completed for another 15-20 years and it would have to go through seperate approval processes. The population target is 15-20k, including 5,000 jobs.

Now my subjective opinions:

- I have my concerns regarding the scale of the proposal but I think it also provides an opportunity for our community. I would love to be able to walk to work. We're talking good office type jobs here which allow us to carry our mortgages (not the $10/hr variety which seems prevalent in Whitby)

- The land is already designated as industrial so we can end up with something rather unpleasant anyway without going through any hearings.

- Because of our proximity to the GO station, the project fits nicely to Ontario objective's regarding intensifications plans along main communication corridors. This is equivalent to being close to a subway station - we wouldn't expect all houses in such neighbourhood to be detached.

- This is our opportunity to impact the project and get as much as possible from the developer (like a walkway to the GO station). If we "win" and not allow this development, another one will come our way. We can't fight forever and the sad fact is that the final arbiter of all decisions (OMB) does not usually side with local residents. We may argue why it is so (I have my theories) but it is a fact. They may just bulldoze this through the approval process and we won't be able to impact it at all. I think working with them is a preferable option.

- Some local residents expressed fear that this may ultimately turn into a Toronto style ghetto. I disagree for many reasons (the design is different, it's a mixed style development with lots of jobs on site, you can't rent those units etc.)

I know that this is a contentious topic. I also understand why some of us can be apprehensive about it - the size of it is gargantuan. However, I do believe that overall this is a positive development for us. It's far from perfect and this is our chance to shape it and improve it. Let's not waste this chance.

Risky

Excellent work Risky on noting what went on at this informal meeting...I was also at the meeting agree with you that this will be good for the town of whitby. I am concerned though about the traffic as it's already getting crazy, can you imagine what it's goin to be like around here with another 10,000 or so more people driving in and around.Can't wait to see the fireworks at the formal meeting.

come on...this is a great oppurtunity for us and the town of Whitby. Just think, people will be able to live and work in the area. Maybe this will stabalize our taxes...Yes, the traffic will be a challenge but we will get used to it. What are we going to do? everytime an area starts to get more developed we should move? eg.Scar. Pickering, Ajax. No! we stay and try to be positive, at the same time we can work together with the developers and make Whitby Shores the envy of the GTA! To battle my fellow Spartans!!! oh, sorry I just watched the movie 300.LOL!

Kitties Wrote:

"The proposed development is huge - 30-40 condominium towers (most of them 20 stories or taller), half a dozen office towers etc."

Time to think about moving out. This is horrendous. I dread to think what this will do to the surrounding area. I moved out to Whitby because I hated living downtown in Toronto.

Unless they widen all the roads (destroying more green land) and put double decker GO trains on Lakeshore East how on earth do they expect people to travel around in the area.

If you hated living in Toronto, moving right beside a GO station was not very wise. You cannot expect to live right beside a train station and a major highway and expect the things to stay the way they are. We also have 407 coming down the road so we are at the centre of a major communication conjunction. All those things (intensification along communication corridors, 407 extension) have been in planning for years - we cannot simply plead our ignorance. This area is going to become more urban - whether we like it or not. As I said, this is our chance to have some positive impact.

it's amazing how some people insist on keeping their glass half empty instead of half full!

Kitties Wrote:

risky Wrote:

Kitties Wrote:

"The proposed development is huge - 30-40 condominium towers (most of them 20 stories or taller), half a dozen office towers etc."

Time to think about moving out. This is horrendous. I dread to think what this will do to the surrounding area. I moved out to Whitby because I hated living downtown in Toronto.

Unless they widen all the roads (destroying more green land) and put double decker GO trains on Lakeshore East how on earth do they expect people to travel around in the area.

If you hated living in Toronto, moving right beside a GO station was not very wise. You cannot expect to live right beside a train station and a major highway and expect the things to stay the way they are. We also have 407 coming down the road so we are at the centre of a major communication conjunction. All those things (intensification along communication corridors, 407 extension) have been in planning for years - we cannot simply plead our ignorance. This area is going to become more urban - whether we like it or not. As I said, this is our chance to have some positive impact.

Maybe I moved close to the GO station because I didn't drive and wanted to be able to walk to catch the train instead of driving!!!!!

My point is that all things have to be considered not just how wonderful it will be to have thousands of more people and cars to ruin the wonderful area that we live in now.

That's wonderful - that was my reason too. Now with the warmer weather, I'm really looking forward to my morning walks. Now you can see why the province would be interested in encouraging more people to do the same Smile

Porch Light On Wrote:

I like the fact they are planning it in stages and are taking into account the balance of commercial and residential but its a shame that the industrial lands will be lost for the Town. Overall, the tax base needs more industrial not residential. I agree with the higher density but I hope the Town is also looking towards allocating industrial land in the north around the proposed 407 route to balance out their assessment before more residential development porposals are accepted.
The Provinces Places to Grow strategy is the right way to go, which includes in-fill developments on existing areas and higher density, but with regards to this particular development its a good proposal for the developer and the Town if they take into consideration the impacts it will have on the existing infrastructure. Roads are just one aspect, as we are facing the issue of north-south links and hwy access that aren't up to snuff. If the development is accepted, the Town can require certain requirements be met which includes lighting improvements, money for road development/improvements and of course schools/hospitals/fire/police.
I'm a bike rider and walker, although I also own a car (only one and that's a challenge with 5 of us) so I speak from experience when I say the increased traffic that is created by any new development needs to be carefully considered. I hope there are bike trails linking to the Henry St bridge as well as paths for pedestrians to the GO and to Iroquois Park as the existing sidewalks are really not aesthetically pleasing, especially with overhead wires and heavy traffic flying by.
I also hope they are looking at their mistakes. Look at how poorly the Walmart area in north Whitby was done with regards to traffic and parking and I think you'll agree with me, the Town of Whitby needs to have some better guidance on commercial/residential mix.
I'm sorry that Kittie and Risky are disappointed with new development. Don't worry, your house will be worth a lot more once the development is up and running so best of luck finding a better neighbourhood for your family to grow up in. This really is an amazing location.
GO Train riders shouldn't worry either, as we won't have to worry. Its Ajax and Pickering riders who won't ever get a seat now.
New and innovative developments are good for Whitby, but they need strong planning and hopefully not be lead by the developers who are in it for the money and leave communities with huge issues once completed. This is clearly what's transpired in many parts of Durham where politicians are facing tax payers wanting more schools and services. Without a balanced tax base, you aren't going to get it, so accept only the best and forget the rest. This community is a jewel so I suspect many prospectors are out there digging.

I'd like to clarify (if my postings haven't made it clear yet) that I SUPPORT the new development Smile

Sretav,

The artistic rendition presented to us by the developer during that meeting did not include anything on the soccer fields. Unless I see some proof, I'll consider those accusations a big fat lie, probably spread by the opponents of the development. Things should become clearer after the first public meeting later this month.

sretav Wrote:

I've again been hearing rumors that the proposed Ecoplace site includes developing the current Iroquois Park Soccer fields and that an artistic site rendering of the final development clearly shows buildings where the soccer fields currently are. Can anyone confirm this? Does anyone have the image in question and can share it with the rest of us?

If this is true, I'd be very dissappointed. I'm all for the plans for north of Victoria. If they can make it work, then great but I have to insist that any current parks, sports fields and public places should be forever off the table when it comes to development. Empty lots are fair game but we need to protect our open, public spaces and if city council allows developers to buy up those spaces then they're essentially selling us out for the cash and I for one wouldn't be voting for any of them next time around.

Other than that, I'm all for Ecoplace if it's done right but "if it's done right" is the big challenge ahead so let's make sure this doesn't get fast tracked through because our councillors have dollar signs in their eyes. Let's make sure it's done right RIGHT NOW not later!.

If it ever comes to that, we'll be chained together...

sretav Wrote:

Glad to hear it. I highly doubted it myself considering Elizabeth Roy twice guaranteed they were not under discussion in posts in these forums but the rumours were growing increasingly persistent that the rendering told the real story. I guess I don't have to chain myself to a tree afterall.

risky

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