Hmmmmm. Is the tide turning on all of this?
At first I thought the development sounded cool and I was all for it but now, after finally grasping the big picture and the huge density (30 to 40 twenty story apartment buildings? seriously? no seriously?) doesn't it maybe sound like it's a little bit toooooooo much? It's not that much land to begin with. How could they possibly build all of that plus office towers and a hotel and it not end up being some amazingly ugly monstrosity?
These developers, whatever their political leanings and possibly dodgy business practices, think really big but maybe they think a little too big? I'm starting to wonder if this is actually going to be good for the overall community? Even at half the size would it be good for the community? our community? Hopefully the people we've elected to deal with these issues have our backs and will use common sense to get this project down to a more reasonable scale.
I'm starting to worry that the razzle dazzle of it all, including the informal meeting at the marina and the highly positive and public announcemnt last year in the media, is all just a smoke-screen to trick everyone into thinking this is going to be great for us. I'm starting to wonder how great a project of that magnitude could possibly be for a quiet neighbourhood by the lake?
Anyone with more information, please post.
Thanks for posting...this is the biggest issue to hit our community EVER. Please keep informed and post all thoughts...
Two first responses:
1) "How could they possibly build all of that plus office towers and a hotel and it not end up being some amazingly ugly monstrosity?"
They can't. It is just that simple. Anyone who doubts that should take a close look at the artists conceptions that you will find on the Town website (under the April 21st Planning Meeting)
http://www.whitby.ca/index.php?Q=003K02V03D018
These are monoliths. The condos by the lake (which I do not mind) are only 12 stories and there are only 2 of them. The new development are 20 stories and there are 40 of them.
Seriously, 40.
Although my suspicious mind thinks that the developer may have said 40 so that if we get it down to 10 or 20, it feels like a victory. Always ask for more than you want is a basic negotiation technique.
2) "Hopefully the people we've elected to deal with these issues have our backs and will use common sense to get this project down to a more reasonable scale."
Two points: Pat Perkins (Mayor and member of Planning Committee) has already publically stated her position in the Toronto Star. She is over the moon IN FAVOUR. So I would not expect impartial common sense.
Also, I think we have to think of this not as amending the developers plans to suit us, but instead keeping to the original Master Plan developed by the Town (a series of low rise, high tech, knowledge based business in a knowledge park environment with no residential) with a large buffer/bern between the Park and Victoria (like Atlas has along Victoria in Ajax).
If we go into this trying to manage the developers desires to a manageable size, we are still putting into play THEIR VISION not the Town's vision.
Remember: The Town did not ask for proposals to develop this land with condos, office buildings and small retail outlets...that is the developers vision. Tell them they are wrong.
The whole "rental" facter is starting to spook me out.
I SERIOUSLY THINK WE SHOULD GATHER THESE ECOPLACE FORUMS, print them, and send them out to all the residents...BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.
There are a lot of residents who are clueless right now to the severity of the consequences....
feedback on printing please!
i would not want 40 buildings there either!!! way too many....I think even 10 is too much...this is Whitby not Toronto!
The rental thing doesnt bother me so much if its 3-4 buldings however I heard there will be a mix of residential and commercial and so the impact of the "renters" wont be so high. Plus renters are like everyone else...just cause they dont have a paper with their name on it and the word Mortgage doesnt make them any less important
My biggest concern is the environmental impact - namely the conservation area. which Whitby residents fought to have protected when Whitby Shores development was being proposed many moons ago.
Is CLOCA involved? What is being done to protect Lynde Shores?
The concept was interesting when it first came forward, but I agree. There is no feasible way to enclose that many towers in that small a footprint. Lets take a look at Downtown Toronto and I hate to be a nay sayers, but do you see that many towers?
I'd like to see them start with an office tower with 10 stories, focusing on a mixed commercial/office complex designation. Condos don't need to be in the mix and I suspect they wouldn't fit this scenario either. I'm looking at the Markham/Richmond Hill office park scenario and maybe this will work, but the mix of living/working just doesn't work when you already have an existing Industrial platform.
Pretty pictures are fine, but reality is that this scale of development with the overall water/hydro/sewer needs as well as transportation/fire/police requirements just doesn't fit on this size of property or the overall structure that presently exists. Our existing sidewalks and roads won't even meet the needs of the overall capacity of this development.
Hopefully the staff in Whitby and the Councillors are not being snowballed but I suspect this has overwhelmed them and they need input.
Don't be afraid to put in your two cents worth, especially if you have some background in this. Remember, your politicians aren't experts and can use help. If they listen, that will be the true telling feature of the quality of individuals who have been elected.