Whitby Shores Community Forums

If memory serves our previous Councillor Mark McKinnon responded to a question about the widening of Victoria St saying it was not planned because it would take years due to a provincial law requiring an environmental assessment be performed.  This was because of the marsh land that we have in the area.  

I don't know much about this issue but would this development also require an environmental assessment?  I would think packing an additional 15K people in the area plus construction would have a huge impact on the surrounding environment (we're already seeing it with the deer now moving into the neighborhood ... and that's just to build a gas station).  Obviously the infrastructure would have to be improved, including the widening of the roads.

I'm not necessarily against the development of the area. Progress and growth are the nature of the beast. I also don't know if an increase in crime is a valid reason to object to this project. However we can all agree it's a nightmare trying to get anywhere north from here when the Go train comes in.  Between this proposed development, others in the area and the developments happening east of Brock on Victoria it's only going to get significantly worse.  Add 15K+ more residents and countless more shoppers all trying to head north (our only option) from our 3 choices, this will be crazy.  Are they going to build more roads heading north to handle the traffic? What will all of this new development and additional traffic do to the ecosystem around here? I know Mayor Perkins claims this will have little environmental impact but I'm not so sure I'm convinced.

Considering the potential environmental impacts perhaps we need to get our MPP involved in this too, since it could fall under the Environmental Assessment Act.

So, I just read the report from the Planning Department.  It seems the environmental assessment that was submitted with the proposal was performed between 1999 and 2002 based on the current designation of the land (Prestige Industrial) and not on what the developer is proposing.  

One of the outstandings from the Planning Department is an updated assessment on the potential impacts to the surrounding wetlands and potential for the contamination of the land.  Considering this is a major outstanding item I'm not sure what the developer or Mayor Perkins are basing their claim on that this proposal will have little environmental impact.  To my previous post, isn't a full environmental assessment a Provincial legal requirement?  Any lawyers out there who can comment on this?  

If you read through the report there are a LOT of outstanding and/or undefined items.  I appreciate that you can't hold off a project until all items are resolved, otherwise nothing would ever get done.  However the number of important outstandings is quite significant.

Hi...where did this deadline come from? At the Planning Mtg, it was voted that the project application could not move forward until all comments from the public, interested parties and all relevant documents as requested by the Planning Dept were submitted and reviewed. As I understand it, the Planning Dept has to review all this material before it can even recommend the application goes forward to the next step in the approval process.

Where did the sudden deadline come from?

I did not recieve one...can you quote the text...as i understood Joe Drumm at the meeting, as long as you wrote your name on the list and/or spoke and/or wrote a letter, you would be on the list.

Was the flyer for folks that did not attend meeting or attended and did not sign the list?

For the record, I agree that development of the lands off of Victoria and Gordon is desirable.  But I believe that the municipal planners had it right the first time: develop the land into a prestige business park with good high paying jobs for local residents (not to mention the requirement for a well landscaped barrier between the buildings and the street).

Think Patheon, think of the Whitby campus of Durham College, think of the new Durham Childrens Aid Society complex by the Oshawa Airport. This is what the planners saw for us.

This land is not zoned for factories or assembly plants. Leaving it alone will not mean a steel plant moves in. This land is not zoned for more retail/service commercial uses (dry cleaners, hair salons, etc).  It is zoned for good knowledge economy jobs.

This developer owns the land but can make more if it is re-zoned for commercial/residential. And on the plans, what I see are 43 buildings: two office buildings, one hotel and 40 condos. It is clear what his intention is: a high density concrete maze of condos with little or no green space. Think of looking across Victoria to see 20 story condos. The poles along the street now are only about 5 stories. Think 4x that height. All along the street.  

The economic future of the town depends on good jobs. A high value business park will attract those jobs.

Remember: changing this land from business park to residential is the developers vision, not the Town's. They did not seek the change, they are simple required to respond to it because the applications arrived.

Its like running a business: You don't have to hire everyone that gives you a resume. Just the ones that fit with your company and have something to offer.

Hi BrianC... I'm pro this development. But think the surrounding infrastructure needs to be improved as a co-requisite. With Atlas now in operation the new development in its current form will need a few things:

- Widening Victoria/Bayly to Shoal Point
- Hwy access at Lakeridge
- Improved pedestrian access to GO

Intensification is not a reason to oppose the project. If anyone wants to see how well a mix of office/commercial/hotel/residential can work in a confined area, take a look at the Wynford Heights/Concord area in Don Mills. In this small area there is a hotel, McDonalds Canada, Home Depot (head Office), IBM, condos, apartments, and retail. This is a highly functional area that can serve as a good model for WS.

Mamala, I believe the widening of Victoria is slated to begin 2009/2010.  Lets hope it's completed faster than the widening of Taunton between Brock and Cochrane!

In addition, the Lakeridge/401 connection is part of the link planned between 401/407.

I don't think its realistic to expect hospital/school/major transportaion links to be built before primary development takes place.  It's politically risky to do so, and the tax base needs to be present before the investment.

(As an aside, hospital funding is a Provincial issue. There are larger issues with our medical system that result in average joes receiving skimpy medical care, let alone securing the hundreds of millions required for a new hospital.)

To others in this thread:

Finally, I do not understand the objections to Phase 1 of Ecoplace based on the idea that the orginal plan for the site envisioned a high tech, knowledge based, business park.  It's a safe bet that knowledge workers will be employed by the firms occupying the proposed space, so why the strong objection on this point?

Finally, I do not understand the objections to Phase 1 of Ecoplace based on the idea that the orginal plan for the site envisioned a high tech, knowledge based, business park.  It's a safe bet that knowledge workers will be employed by the firms occupying the proposed space, so why the strong objection on this point?

Hi...

My objection is even simplier than that: I do not believe that Phase 1 should be permitted to go ahead by itself, regardless of land use issues. The entire development must be considered as a whole.

Originally, the proposal submitted to the Town was for the entire complex. When the process was slowing down, the developer sought to breakout the project into phases and begin to build with a phase that does not require wholesale re-zoning. They seek to get "shovels in the ground" because it will make the rest of the project look like a done deal.  

Therefore, I object to the developer trying to get a jump on building by trying to break the project into phases without knowing the sum of the parts.  An objection shared by the Planning Depts of both the Town and the Region.

Here is the global issue that becomes muddy if Phase 1 is built: currently the area ia zoned for "business park", which means that the lands must be

a) used for certain kinds of businesses ONLY (research, IT, corporate offices, etc) and no residential or factory uses
b) well landscaped in a way that suits the area
c) contain a grass berm/barrier along Victoria to partially shield the community from the parking lots, etc.


If the land is RE-ZONED as "mixed use" , then along with the smaller business firms that may come to occupy the office buildings, you also get whatever uses the developer wants (i.e. the 40 large condos of 20 stories each all along Victoria).

Effectively, the RE-ZONING gives the developer a blank slate for the land.

I agree completely with WSH. I'm not necessarily opposed to development. What I am opposed to the piecemeal approach, and work beginning on Phase 1 before the entire proposal is considered and approved. Check the records, the builder has been asked to provide impact assessments by the Planning Dept and they have not been provided yet. Are we supposed to let this go ahead without that info? It's a little late for an impact assessment after building begins.

Hey! I just noticed this. Come on Nan, I'm a reasonable sort.